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Concerns over the Google Library Project

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Thread Title:
Something fishy with Google library project
Thread Url:
http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=3400
Thread Description:
In the threadlink above, king of the Google Conspiracy Theory™ Everyman aka Daniel Brandt makes some interesting observations as to how long it would take Google to complete their library project.

Let's run 24-hours a day (three shifts of temp workers at minimum wage!) and assume that the wizards at the Googleplex will never have any down time. How many days is this? 383,969 / 24 = 15,999 days.
How many years is this? 15,999 / 365.25 = 43.8 years. Even their cookie won't last that long!

Followed by NFFC quoting a Times article that raises the issue surrounding copyrights and Googles new project:

There is, of course, a more worrying possibility. By the act of converting printed books to digital form Google will be creating a new copyright.
Works in the public domain will effectively be privatised. Whether or not Google chooses to exercise its rights, it and its library partners will be owners of the newly processed property. So the vast reservoir of material in the out-of-copyright public domain will become “proprietary”, or pay-per-view. If we get access, it will be because we are “allowed”, not because we have the right.

Daniel's points are interesting, but the Times piece's questions about copyright concern me far more that the mathematics and logistics of the task ahead.
John Battelle also had some interesting thoughts on monetization of Google Library and Google Print:

In other words, this could well be a step toward diversifying Google's revenue streams away from advertising and into direct sales and/or subscriptions - ie, the content business. As one source who is familiar with the industry tells me, Google is not doing this only out of the kindness of its heart - there is a lot of money to be made in selling books, in particular books with no copyright.

Does anyone here have concerns over this project or more information/links to add?

- Y! MyWeb

am I missing something?

I'm confused by the digital copyright issues, if the original is out of copyright surely that wouldn't mean that Google or anyone else, if converting the book to digital format, would then own copyright on all versions of the book? It isn't illegal to pop down the road for a copy of Alice in Wonderland for example but afaik that's in the same situation.

That said, the whole project leaves me somewhere uneasy - as a reference it sounds amazing, but somewhere somehow it's going to make someone a profit I'm sure.

By Gurtie at Dec 19 2004 - 20:43

Hmm

Aaron has got a pretty informative post, including pointers to press releases/statements by each library and examples of books that are already searchable.

One useful quote from the Univ. of Michigan press release:

The University Library will receive and own a high quality digital copy of the materials digitized by Google. With ownership of these materials, the University will be able to provide access to the content in ways that are consistent with its mission as a great public university.

So to paraphrase the Times' concern, the writer is concerned that by having digital copies available, Google and public universities may somehow do harm? As I understand it, anyone else is also free to digitize these books. And the libraries will have the digital data to use as well. That seems strictly better (certainly no worse) than having the books not easily accessible?

By GoogleGuy at Dec 19 2004 - 20:53

Nice link

Thanks GG, now why cant Aaron get RSS on that site? Or can i just not find it? :-)

By Nick W at Dec 19 2004 - 20:59

>As I understand it, anyone e

As I understand it, anyone else is also free to digitize these books.

My understanding as well. Fair game is fair game, IMO. All this sounds a lot like puppies whining because a big dog's found some food.

By rcjordan at Dec 19 2004 - 21:13

>As I understand it, anyone e

As I understand it, anyone else is also free to digitize these books.

That very much depend og the jurisdiction. As far as I know from my years of publishing and authoring I don't think it is allowed here (in Denmark). My publisher even had to get my written approval to sell the book online when they started doing that.

I don't know what Google or anyone else intend to digitize but if they want to digitize anything that I write they better make sure they have a contract with me and my publisher :)

By Mikkel deMib Sv... at Dec 19 2004 - 21:22

a big dog's found some food.

I honestly think that at some point in the near future we will look back at this move in awe. In this digital age I think it is more significant than Microsoft's original deal with IBM over DOS, it could/should be HUGE once the logical step to move into the copyrighted end of the market.

Quick facts:

"About 1.62 billion books were purchased in the United States in 2001"

1.6 Billion!!! It is a huge, huge, market.

http://www.sims.berkeley.edu/research/projects/how-much-info-2003/print.htm

Distribution must be a nightmere, they are hevey, easy to damage, requires millions and millions of trees to die and storage must be very challenging.

I can only see three winners from this, the people who format the data, the people who work out how to distribute and charge for it and the "viewing device" makers. It will do for books what CD's did to records, what DVD's are doing to video.

Googles tech + Ipod for books = $$$$$$$

By NFFC at Dec 19 2004 - 21:37

If DK is like many (most?) co

If DK is like many (most?) countries, 100 years from now you won't care, Mikkel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries'_copyright_length

By rcjordan at Dec 19 2004 - 21:41

>I honestly think that at som

I honestly think that at some point in the near future we will look back at this move in awe.

G likes free content, I like free content ...I'm just p-o'd that they have more firepower than I do!

By rcjordan at Dec 19 2004 - 21:47

firepower

Damn right! heh..

So, who is "whining about the big dog"? I've only seen vague concerns by bloggers and press, not any companies, have i missed some stuff?

>iPod

Ohhhh yeah! - like D O N T - P A N I C! but for *every* book....

By Nick W at Dec 19 2004 - 21:56

Genealogy in Ireland went online..

..and the net result was costs where there had been no costs before.

In other words prior to the original reference (for example, Church Records, rent books) books being scanned, one could go to a library and look at the hard copy.

After scanning, it was no longer possible to view the hard copy for free, in an attempt to make the user pay to view the records these became "unavailable".

Those that held the "right" to the scanned works then held an effective monopoly over the supply of the data.

By cornwall at Dec 19 2004 - 21:59

Electronic rights

So far as I know, book contracts these days usually come with an option on electronic rights - however, where there is no existing agreement on older books for electronic rights (ie, before 1993, when the issue blew up in publishing) then there *may* be an issue with authors being able to claim copyright infringement because of electronic storage.

For more information on that issue, this article may prove useful:
http://www.sfwa.org/beware/electronic.html

By Brian_Turner at Dec 20 2004 - 11:48

Bang Bang

Bang!

By NFFC at Dec 20 2004 - 20:20

almost workable

but what happens if you drop it in the bath?

By Gurtie at Dec 20 2004 - 20:49

I can't see too many people w

I can't see too many people wanting to read extended novel sized books on a computer or even a laptop.

>Bang!

That is just it. Most people want to read on something handheld which means having the file downloadable. A PDA will do for reading ebooks as will the Cybook reader or the eBookwise reader.

Researchers might like the Google library, but I'm not sure about the reading public if you cannot download the to a handy sized reader.

By Brad at Dec 20 2004 - 21:20

Project

I'd like to be able to project print onto a handy surface, like a wall...

in nice adjustable colors and contrast please...

By Nick W at Dec 20 2004 - 21:23

It's 4 in the morning - da dum da duuuummmm!

Hmmm.. here i am again, the joys of parenthood eh?

Just seen this quote from John Blossom at Shore: via staci at PC

Quote:
"In the long run ... it's a huge warning sign to publishers and aggregators that have relied on the time-tested tool of copyright law as the basis for their profitability - not so much because of any direct threat to their domain but by highlighting the changing fortunes of a domain of content value whose time may have come and gone."
-- "Put simply the models for success in premium content are moving on, not waiting for those who'd rather salt away another round of quarterly or semi-annual returns on copyrighted chestnuts before breaking the bad news to their boards that they've been shaking the wrong branch of the money tree way too long."
-- "When copyright becomes viewed as a right to discuss a relationship on one's own terms rather than a demand to avoid relationships, copyrighted content will find its way into more useful venues more quickly - with monetization to follow."

By Nick W at Dec 21 2004 - 02:49

The first Serious Competition?

Internet Archive to build alternative to Google

Quote:
Ten major international libraries have agreed to combine their digitised book collections into a free text-based archive hosted online by the not-for-profit Internet Archive. All content digitised and held in the text archive will be freely available to online users.

Two major US libraries have agreed to join the scheme: Carnegie Mellon University library and The Library of Congress have committed their Million Book Project and American Memory Projects, respectively, to the text archive. The projects both provide access to digitised collections.

http://www.iwr.co.uk/IWR/1160176 via sel

By Nick W at Dec 21 2004 - 15:12