Link Development vs. Traffic Development

52 comments

Hold the front page - a link to a forum instead of a blog!

At WMW, sugarrae makes a great post in the Link Development forum - Link Development vs. Traffic Development and Staying with the Times.

Another in the ever-more-common 'new SEO is no SEO' series, there are lots of nails in the coffin of cruddy links, auto-gen and ROS schemes, although she does concede that big scale full-on bombardment can still work. For now.

A long post, I loved it. Lots of quotable stuff, so I'll just throw in one from towards the end:

The best part is that all of these ways of developing traffic have the side benefit of doing exactly what you wanted to do with traditional link development. By aiming for traffic, you end up acquiring (purposely anyway, scrapers will continue to exist) a dream team of inbound links for SE purposes.

Nice comment from jcoronella too :)

Comments

Great post!

But really nothing different than many of us have been saying for years. It's only that the search engines are finally catching up and not allowing the quick fixes to work anymore. Which makes people finally come around to realizing they might actually have to produce quality work to be successful.

I'll never understand why people fought it for so long!

She's the boss

She's the boss of link development, no doubt. She had a post in the supporters area a couple of years ago that was as good as that one, for it's time. She also helped me a while ago with getting kick started on link development and I handily got some very nice placement in a competitive market for my SEO client - who's still ranking two years later even though they don't pay me any money :).

She's also right that some old school crappy stuff still works. But it's a lot less reliable IMO.

But is it the future?

Not trying to paint Doug as being in a different camp to the 'quality work to be successful' one, his just happened to be two semi-recent posts that I remembered, to whit:

'Automated content to kill search' and 'Search engines and a new revamped algo'

Of course these two seemingly different visions of the near future (his and sugarrae's, above) needn't be oil and water, they could mix, but they do seem, at first glance, to be fundamentally contradictory, mutually exclusive. Without bringing millinery into it, who's right? Who's closest, or are they on two different racetracks?

> I'll never understand why

> I'll never understand why people fought it for so long!

You don't understand that most people want a shortcut? Are you serious?

what is this WMW you speak

what is this WMW you speak of ;)

Scrapers?

She's missed the latest developments in scraping obviously.

Many of them no longer provide any outbound links and only use your content to attract visitors and the only exits are AdSense.

Links ahoy... not.

hey

That's my line!

Seriously though it threw me for a loop to read something useful there for a change.

Good post but its google

Good post but its google centeric, MSN and Yahoo are way behind and last I checked the visitors they send make me money too.

--
Bill I been meaning to tell you my bots having issues with your site again. You need to fix that.

webprofessor, very true. I

webprofessor, very true.

I had to laugh each time I read "Old way", because I thought to myself hey that's my current methodology for getting ranked in MSN!

Andy shhhhhh!!!

Andy shhhhhh!!!
:-)

Seen MSN today?

Big changes. Swill. One or two threads at WMW about that as well.

webprofessor

If you have bots on my site YOU have issues, not me ;)

The keep knocking but they can't come in...

one last try

link development traffic development blah blah blah
just semantics. Notice the remark about the 6 months thing? Where do other people get these clients that are willing to pay for 6 months waiting for results?

The whole black/white thing is the epitome of stupidity,(sorry to be so uncharacteristically harsh),and has been from the very first b/w discussion. No one has ever autosubmitted to blogs for the purpose of pissing off the quality blogger just trying to speak his mind. They auto submit to get traffic. It is not an end,it is merely a means to an end and that end is the same end as this revelation post we're discussing now.

rant over<

The same goes for people who submit to 1600 hi quality directories. They don't do it to try to lower the quality of this web treasure. They do it for the traffic the increased placement will bring.

The thing is that now that this so-called white hat revelation has been made, is the b/w debate finally over? Obviously, we can all join one camp now because there is no way anyone is going to find a way to autogenerate any of this.

I'm actually not disagreeing with any of the techniques sugarrae posted. She is spot on for all those SEO's who represent only their own affiliate site or have the kind of clients who are willing to pay for months with no assurance of quality results,(who is that your mom?). But still as much as I would like to see the post that finally eliminates this silly division in this industry, I don't think this post is it. Great post though.

the weenie

lol @ maxd ;-0

can anyone point me to someone who will answer a question in this wmw place? all the regulars their only talk with each other and some of them are saying that my blog is not relevant, can someone explain what is "relevant"? who are these people?

and that incredibill fellah seems really angry...

the weenie 8=

LOL

Seriously though it threw me for a loop to read something useful there for a change.

So true! I found this article yesterday and found it very useful to point newbies and mis-guided experts a like. I am sure the WMW thread will be 15 pages long soon.

Relevent websites are those

Relevent websites are those that somehow increase WMW's reputation, massages Brett's enormous ego, belongs to a moderator ( well until recently ) and is decidely nuetral or progoogle.

/added:
said site can not include a forum that competes for members

Don't even mention it!

If you even mention you wrote something elsewhere, eluding that people might want to check out what you posted elsewhere, opposed to cutting and pasting the whole thing on that forum, you'll get privately spanked.

So there's the rub, if you write it THERE it's OK, but linking to the same thing you already wrote elsewhere and it's taboo.

you talkin' to me?

you talkin' to me?

bill?

huh, maybe he is talking to me? I simply mentioned the Link Development article on WebProWorld as a good resource. Of course I didnt author the thread at WMW, sugarrae did. So how would I be self promoting?

I meant on WMW

Don't even mention you wrote something elsewhere, left out the WMW part

I am not following you...

Wrote something else where? I simply refereed to a great article online on the WPW forum and my own blog.

What are you talking about Bill?

ROFL

Warning: Disconnect in progress.

LOL

I must admit I am fully un-plugged.

Oh, social link baiting

Ah, but wait a minute, I actually got a brand-spanking-new social link baiting tool for you all based on social bookmarking, javascript and all.

That one should give you some traffic, or links, or whatever. As long as you provide good content.

Go grab it

*LOL* Sometimes coincidences can be quite funny.

I'll 'Splain it RIcky

My comment was a reference to the WMW no linking policy SEOBUZZBOX mentioned "saying that my blog is not relevant, can someone explain what is "relevant"".

He can't link to his blog, he cant even mention he has posted useful information elsewhere, that would all be verbotten.

However, you can cut and paste it into WMW and suddenly the content is relevant.

Back to your hangovers and link discussion.

AHHHHHHH HA

Yeah, I dont agree with not being able to link to the orginal source of a great post. Let the contents originator at least get some credit. Oh well what can you do.

bACk tO mY HAngOvEr

yeah that

http://clsc.net/tools/ - very useful tools and links dude, bookmarked, thanks! :-)

your friend nick wilson also rules his new blog nation with an iron fist and many people who are at the helm of social networks are tightening their belts around our necks. whenever i read "don't link out unless it is extremely relevant" i pack my bags and find another place to hangout.

old vs. new

Old WebMeisterWorld vs. New WebmeisterWorld:

Old WebmeisterWorld:

Quote:
Newbiewan2004: My site rox but I can't get any Google luv. Whazzup wit dat?
SlyOldDoggie: Read the forums... lots of good stuff in here.

New WebmeisterWorld:

Quote:
Newbiewan2006: My site rox but I can't get any Google luv. Whazzup wit dat?
CleanAsaWhistleSEO: Write good content, and then make flyers and put them into people's mailboxes in your town so they are aware of it, and then sponsor free coffee talks to get them chating about it, and maybe start a dog walking service where you can attach a sign to the side of each dog announcing your website... it's all about good content and conversation, dontchaknow.

dogvertising?

(I know about bumvertising but dogvertising is new to me)

Anyone seen any casinos do that yet? *lol*

Careful

You put casino ads on a dog and some confused old lady might try to shove a coin in his slot and pull his handle, it could be dangerous

Spam Doggies

Be careful not to use spam doggies from bad kennels.

OH NO!

You put casino ads on a dog and some confused old lady might try to shove a coin in his slot and pull his handle, it could be dangerous

that just made my day - thnx

dogvertising

Probably would work in Hollywood.

This thread is hysterical...

I needed a good laugh like this!

Quote:
However, you can cut and paste it into WMW and suddenly the content is relevant.

I think it is called "All for me, none for you."

Sorry Nick, I'm about to talk too long...

>>>She's missed the latest developments in scraping obviously.

I'm well versed in em. ;-) But a lot of people are still using the old systems. And that remark was put there more to prevent someone from going "but, you can't control the scraper sites that link to you, yah, yah, yah"

>>MSN

Hahaha. I had the same thought myself. If you notice, I used the word *smart* before the word search engine. I wouldn't classify MSN in that category. ;-)

>>>The whole black/white thing is the epitome of stupidity

Anyone who knows me would know that I certainly was throwing no stones. LOL.

>>>all those SEO's who represent only their own affiliate site

A lot of members there are indeed one man bands or companies with one or two websites. I certainly couldn't spend that kind of time on 400 sites myself (for me, I outsource for my quality sites). But, if I had a handful of sites as most people do, I'd be looking at long term. I had those people in mind when writing it.

>>>http://clsc.net/tools/bookmark-links.php

Claus - where was this *three days ago* when I was scouring for this to put on my new blog I'm having designed? Very nice.

>>>CleanAsaWhistleSEO

Wow. I think those words just melted at the thought of even getting near me. ;-)

And Jill, you're right - it was all just common sense. But, I spend a lot of time in the link development forum and see the same pagerank questions day after day. It was my way of shaking people. ;)

Thanks for the nod mat... posts like that are just what happen when I get bored and PartyPoker is down for maintainence. It was never meant to be an end all for super experienced SEOs. Thus why I put it on the outside and not in supporters (which is where I normally post my long winded posts) - because it was the people running a few sites and those getting started and trying to read through SEO information from 1996 to now and know what was current. ;-)

developing carpal tunnel

or perhaps just serious hand cramps after all this typing over the past two days, sugarrae?

great posts.

sugarrae , you just looking

sugarrae , you just looking for more clients by being an authority poster. I got your game. More power though I guess you will get a lot of work from it from all the noobs with their crappy sites still in the sandbox.

done.

hijack complete. Oh, and http://www.c...lk.com/

edit: hmm.. I thought that was a challenge I saw somewhere, and then maybe somebody didn't want it posted... and then.. oh it's so hard to be "sensitive" eh? Oh well.

>>challenge

The 26 letter domain was the #1 result on Google for my search... I wish competitive analysis was that easy.

Huh?

>> hijack complete. Oh, and http://www.c...lk.com/
>> The 26 letter domain was the #1 result

Better hints, please. I don't get it.

>>I don't get it.

Rae has a challenge one her profile site (at the bottom of the page).

Massa

Quote:
The whole black/white thing is the epitome of stupidity,(sorry to be so uncharacteristically harsh),and has been from the very first b/w discussion.

Agreed. But then why come into a thread where nobody's even mentioned hats and start talking about them?

And SugarRae:

Quote:
And Jill, you're right - it was all just common sense. But, I spend a lot of time in the link development forum and see the same pagerank questions day after day. It was my way of shaking people. ;)

Yep, know the feeling!

Oh, I see

Congrats Rae&Jake, I see it's appropriate. And Jake's got a blog... well, whaddayaknow :)

>> 26 letter

Lol it seems Rae likes long domain names - found a few > 20 :)

LOL

Yep, sure do... actually, I forgot that challenge was even on the sugarrae site - put it on there long ago when they was no obvious connection (i.e. they didn't share hosting, etc)... that 26 letter long domain will be gone by next week... blog relaunching on the sugarrae site - got tired of typing such a long name.

Thanks Claus. :) And no, its a whiteboard, not a blog. So he says. :P

>Massa The whole

>Massa

The whole black/white thing is the epitome of stupidity,(sorry to be so uncharacteristically harsh),and has been from the very first b/w discussion.<
***********************

Agreed. But then why come into a thread where nobody's even mentioned hats and start talking about them?<
*********************

My apologies. I realize no one had used the word HAT, but I certainly felt the topic implied a distinction between old and new and black and white.I didn't mean to offend by reading between the lines. I just thought that was kind of the point of the discussion and NOT whether the techniques would work or not.

And no, its a whiteboard,

Quote:
And no, its a whiteboard, not a blog. So he says. :P

Wonder if that means he can get links from WmW?

Massa, I think it's old hat

Massa, I think it's old hat vs. new hat, not black hat vs. white hat.

Or maybe asshat vs. smarthat. (MSNhat vs. Googlehat?)

bothat vs manualhat?

bothat vs manualhat?

Very astute gentleman. I

Very astute gentleman. I love it when I can see perception change with just a couple of good posts. Humor always seems to make the point better too. The mental picture of an asshat was a great one. Good job!

Please indulge me while I attempt my own small contribution.

ODE TO AN ASSHAT

While I prefer to work with my fingers
Those old hat tricks still darkly linger
A little of this a little of that
quickly switching from hat to hat
From old to smart from bot to new
It matters not the technique we use
as long as it done with a bit of class
now where did I put that hat for my ass

massa

uggh

I always get freaked out when I see that picture. It has been a while.

"Asshat" always makes me

"Asshat" always makes me think of the lovely practice of dog helmeting. Now that's a reason to say uggh.

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