The Cost of Jagger

The Jagger update continues to wreak havoc on webmaster's wallets right before the holidays. There are so many pages of "I got dropped" posts on every forum, that it's hard to imagine the damage that's been done. I've been reading a post over at DigitalPoint about The cost of Jagger. In this thread people are reporting 50-100% loss of income. $9,000 lost by one, $600 a day losses by another.

So if you got hit hard by Jagger, you may want to take a peek or join in the discussion. They say misery loves company. Somehow it helps to read about other's woes, just to know we are not alone.

Linda ~ 5 Star Affiliate Programs

Comments

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>>>*added - if you read the post more closely, it is actually a quote from someone else.

I knew that... ;-)

Todd's gotta do what Todd's gotta do.

Quote:
Matt Cutts posted how to send feedback on Jagger1 at...

That is pretty funny...I'm guessing he's just tryin' out the "Ricky Henderson 3rd person technique". (note: If you've ever listened to David Cross's standup, he's got a great impression that comes to mind)

That or perhaps the whole GG thing is just creating an identity crisis.

Embrace your alter ego Matt! ;)

*added - if you read the post more closely, it is actually a quote from someone else.

That's what a friend just

That's what a friend just said to me, i guess i still feel a little paternal over some of those dumb folks heh..

Insulting

Na, I don't think so. It just looks to me to be written for real dumb folks.

..

Looks to me like Matt has someone writting his blog for him or he is starting to crack up under the pressure.

Matt Cutts posted how to send feedback on Jagger1 at...

You don't write stuff like that, if you are in fact Matt Cutts... Unless your going nuts... ;-)

Am i the only one that finds

Am i the only one that finds this dreadfully insulting?

resources and tools

I was going to mention that point, but it didn't seem to fit. In fact, the "Cowboy" thread really started out in my mind as "The Age of Power Tools Has Arrived" or somesuch but I decided to address the problem of what to call us, the roadshow types.

But, you are absolutely right. The players I know are now well-armed.

overal stabilty

Well put RC. Also what I am seeing is more of the power is going into less and less hands.

The "old established" seos who have decided to grow business's, now have staff, knowledge, skill, money, resources and tools. Also they have grown an understanding that the game they are playing changes daily and so don't moan, just move on and built more sites and more strategies. They know that some times they win some times they loose, they now have "real" sites, crap sites, short term cash models, long term cash models....aslong as they are building they know some will work.

Its a difficult space to play in now if you aren't already playing well.

DougS

"More and more of the cowboys I know have overall stability "

"some sites up, some sites down, authority sites maintaining status quo"

I have never looked on myself as a cowboy.. but maybe I should examine what I am about.

I chose "cowboys"

(note that I chose "cowboys" because an increasing number of my cohorts are not black nor gray at all --after a point, it seems that even white can work. Successful sites no longer have color boundaries. )

>1. there is more and more at risk of competitive pressures, if the base tactic is revealed

Or, as toolman so eloquently put it before he went totally underground; STFU!! He was right, of course ...with the possible exception of FUD-spreading, which does work to some extent.

>2. I have more free time available, yet I am not interested in rocking the boat of my sites

True enough, but there's a third;

3. More and more of the cowboys I know have overall stability (some sites up, some sites down, authority sites maintaining status quo). Most (not me, but most) are using their time to aggressively and quietly expand their base.

the state of the art?

I suspect it comes with stability. If optimization achieves some stability, where the basic tactic remains productive and cowboys are able to optimize their tools, two things happen (at least in my shop):

1. there is more and more at risk of competitive pressures, if the base tactic is revealed
2. I have more free time available, yet I am not interested in rocking the boat of my sites

So I can monetize elsewhere (your run-of-the-mill SEO forum), or I an build more sites.

I don't think I am the only one recognizing a core stability since the sandbox took hold (?)

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...the cowboys are becoming more and more restrictive about what information they'll exchange in public...

Sad but true, I used to be just the opposite. I'd talk about everything I knew in SEO. Several SEO type people even used to get angry with me over discussing some SEO methods in public.

But no longer, if people want to know what SEO I know, they can pay for it...

>newbies and wannabe

>newbies and wannabe SEOs

Unfortunately for the old cowboys, that's where the money is --and we've seen more than a few boards decide that they need to chase the money rather than continue to support their founding sentiment. This problem is compounded by the fact that the cowboys are becoming more and more restrictive about what information they'll exchange in public, so they tend to just cover 'water cooler' topics; which laptop, why blogs suck, etc.

Hey, don't worry about it,

Hey, don't worry about it, Linda. :)

SEO is all about ups and downs and it's all too easy to obsess about every little movement - so long as the net movement is in the intended direction then you're doing something right. :)

Actually, TW is more for the Pros

I'd say you'll find more "misery loves company" someplace like WPW that automatically signs up anyone in their directory for their newsletter.

And newbies here won't get much sympathy, as you can tell. You can tell people over and over not to base their living off of free Google traffic, but no one pays any attention til they get hit by an update.

For the record, I don't see any "hat" pattern to the current shiftings. I know some sites that really are lily white that have fallen, but I've seen some underhanded ones finally removed as well.

And, in the end... it's not the end. MC himself has said to give it a few weeks to sort out.

Not for the PROS here

I know all the pros here have been through this before with lots of previous updates. But we all have a memorable "1st time". When you have a long standing site that's never been dropped - the 1st time can be very painful! WHINE, it hurts! And yes, no one should rely on G alone for traffic. I certainly don't, thank God!

I have to think that hundreds of regular one site owners, newbies and wannabe SEOs also read TW for the latest SEO news. So hopefully some that read here and don't post have gotten some good insights. I also know that many SEO sites were dropped and there have been hundreds of forum posts about this particular update by sites of all types that have been dropped. Seems like it's shaken more white hat sites than any other, as far as I can tell.

I just thought this would be a good topic of conversation and there have certainly been some great comments from all sides so far.

The Search Engines are unstable .. period

this happens every time Google, Yahoo and to a lesser extent MSN modify their algo.

The thing is all it takes is a Google Engineer to flip a switch.. modify an algo .0004% and there you have it.. page 400 in the search engines when you were page one.

Just like everything in life

Everyone knows the risks in relying on "consistant" income from SE...so how can anyone whine? And if someone making $600 a day from Google did not think SE changes could and would effect his income in a dramatic way sometime...hes just been lying to himself. And if a person really did not know this could happen Well, good lesson then.

Just like with anything else in life that you know is coming sooner or later... try and learn and "roll with it".

This is a great "no whine zone"

Be Good,
Dan

BK

Ammon: Anything that is a drop and a 50% loss for one business is obviously a climb and 50% increase for another.

I always wonder if the net effect breaks down like that - to a 1:1 ratio - or if a 50% loss for one is a 10% increase for 5, etc. etc. I'm always curious if a subset of the goal to "increase relevancy" is to redistribute the wealth among a higher % of sites.

Whine free zone

Nice to see no whining on TW. I see over at WMW there's already 18 pages of sniffling, whining and much stabbing in the dark.

I don't mind if lts of sites drop out, as long as they are not mine :) I agree with Black Knight - one mans loss is anothers gain.

grnidone you're not seriously suggesting that GOOG make sites drop just so they had to buy Adsense? Surely GOOG have some morals, don't they?

3 stages followed by a

3 stages followed by a flux

What'll be interesting is to see what the perceived changes in Google are. Semantics, links sandbox, and user data?? The post-mortem should be interesting. :)

Ah, blessed sanity in SEM.

Thank God for that. Was worried there was gonna be whining, and instead I find a good healthy business attitude from all replies. Good to see.

The market owes you nothing, what you want from it you have to earn/reap. Anything that is a drop and a 50% loss for one business is obviously a climb and 50% increase for another. Even a global recession follows that rule, where the loans companies, bailiffs, etc all get a boomtime.

it was certainly the same

it was certainly the same last year heather, im not sure i rememeber the year before.. though i seem to recall it being so, and a lot of sites popped right back in just when it was too late for the holiday season..

hmm....

Isn't this the norm? It

Isn't this the norm? It seems google always does a big update before the holidays so people have to buy adsense.

Jagger.. too early to draw a conclusion!

According to Matt & GoogleGuy (assuming we are not talking about the same person ;-) ), Jagger has 3 stages followed by a flux.

We are still at the first stage. Around wednesday the second stage shall start. The third stage shall start during the first week of November 2005. Then the flux.

IMO, its too early to draw any conclusion yet.

Lets wait and see ;-)

I think you'll find a lot of

Quote:
I think you'll find a lot of folks in that latter category hang out around here.

Shhhh. There are some things that were best left untouched after June ;-)

And [url=]did you see Matt give BT the nod for a naming[/url]?

Quote:
Given that there should be new PageRank/backlinks visible in a few days (assuming no issues at our end), I wouldn’t be surprised if Brett slaps a name on it pre-emptively, even though there will still be some flux to come.

I'm of the opinion that ...

>bring on Jagger and whatever is next.

the Christmas update should be named "Kamasutra".

[typo]

jagger

Life's much better once you've figured out that there's more to it than free Google traffic.

Sure, but that's not what most of us are about. Ecommerce is so easy that the village idiot can set up shop. Using services such as http://www.volusion.com/ and running PPC ads you only need basic business smarts to be successful.

I have moved away from ecommerce because after several years I have found I absolutely hate customer service. That includes actually shipping product to the customer. When I looked at my wife and complained that I was probably one of the highest paid shipping managers in world I knew that was the beginning of the end for me. Customer service is Kryptonite to me.

Life became much easier for me once I figured out there was more free Google traffic for me - and less for others. So, bring on Jagger and whatever is next. It doesn't matter.

This my thinking

Working with multiple affiliates using multiple targeted domains each with a different methodology makes all this so UNimportant.

Jagger? Google?

Jagger? Google? Google's the company I pay to send me lots of traffic.

Dropped...I stopped feeling the impact of that fall a long time ago.
Life's much better once you've figured out that there's more to it than free Google traffic.

Wow

There are still people relying on one search engine, one site, one market, etc out there. Cost of Jagger - seems my cost is a BENEFIT, because there are a ton of SEO's out there whining instead of working - easier pickins for the rest of us.

Diverisfy, multiply - repeat. Rank well, rank bad - build more sites, get over it, move on.

You're not properly seasoned ...

... until you've lived through (and recovered from) a 90% drop in Google traffic.

What you're describing is

What you're describing is just part of the life of an seo. The group here will tell you what the FIRST RULE is; No Whining!

The second rule; Don't bleed on the carpet.

jagger

I don't think you will find much sympathy here at TW.

For everyone of those folks that say they are losing money, there is someone who is now showing increases in profits of 50% to 100%...

I think you'll find a lot of folks in that latter category hang out around here. ;-)

priceless

>>But its taught me to go more in the direction of link exchanges as opposed to relying on Google to bring me traffic. They just can't be trusted. (from baseballcube in the DP thread)

One website: $5000
One Jagger Update: 50% revenue
Realizing that relying on G for a living is just plain stupid: Priceless

Cost of Jagger? c'mon.

So we're all waiting for G to 'return to normal'? Yeah - good idea - old algo, stale db. That's good for business.