The SEO Biz, and the Power of Friendship

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I've not seen a day slower than this one in the history of TW, it's just not worth throwing shite out there just to keep up with front page material though..

So i thought i'd bore you all to tears with a tale of business done the old fashioned way...

Im not sure how it works for you, but with me, i like to do favors for people, because those favors build friendships, and eventually, return favors. As some know, im in the process of building a shop for my mums business in the uk, and so far, i've managed to barter almost all of what i need in order to make it succeed.

All done over IM, all with friends who're experts in their areas and all done on the basis that favors oil business, particularly our business.

This the same for everyone? Do you do a lot of business without money changing hands?


Far too much

Most of what I do never sees anything in return. I am a "thankyou" whore ;O)

One day all of my karma will come back to me tenfold, so much I won't know what to do with it all.

I do get lots out of helping other people but as a side effect rather than directly. So much that I would recommend anyone with time on their hands to just get out there and share whatever knowledge, skills, or time they have.

On the barter topic, I haven't ever swapped services though I have a dedicated server on loan. A pretty massive favour that I will have to return one day (:Oo

It used to be like that in

It used to be like that in some of the larger forums, though i find helping newbies on forums not nearly as rewarding as i did 3/4 yrs ago now...

?I got tired of trying to

?I got tired of trying to help people on the forums some time ago.

Several times, I remember when some joker would ask a very basic beginner SEO question (like; "Do links help ranking?" or "what is anchor text?") Ok fair questions, but then you take a look at their sites... WTF?? these jackasses are selling SEO services, with guaranteed placement no less...

After seeing this kind of thing a bunch of times, I just quit helping folks on the forums.

So that's the reason!

After seeing this kind of thing a bunch of times, I just quit helping folks on the forums.

And here I thought you were just mean! ;)

though i find helping

though i find helping newbies on forums not nearly as rewarding as i did 3/4 yrs ago now

Is that a change in you, or a change in the way people reacted to you as you became a 'senior' forum member?

And here I thought you were

And here I thought you were just mean!

I am... a mean and bitter old man.

Is that a change in you, or

Is that a change in you, or a change in the way people reacted to you as you became a 'senior' forum member?

I don't think people reacted differently to me particularly, im quite approachable usually :)

I think it's in part a change in me, in part that the once small business of web dev is now inundated with newbies, where before it was quite manageable.

The signal to noise on some of my once favorite haunts got unbearable - and good posts, good replies and good questions buried in the crush of repeat questions more often than not..

but newbies = biz opportunities to board owners, so whatever, im sure they manage quite well without me clogging up the works hehe..


Nick couldn't find "mean" with both hands.

Just wanted a second opinion

I changed my nic on WMW earlier this year, having originally joined back in 2002. The reason? Primarily because I wasn't getting the sort of feedback I used to get on threads. No credible new ideas being bounced around, and like you say, the same old questions. I figured starting from scratch again with no rep might encourage a few more lively discussions, or at least get people to question my posts, but in truth it's made little difference.

DaveN pretty much covers it

Q: As more people know about certain techniques they get abused beyond belief and search engines are more likely to close the loopholes. How do you strike a balance with what to share?

A: Trust is a binding factor here. I would share my last dollar with a close friend and ideas are much cheaper in my eyes. At the end of the day if it wasn’t for the close community of friends I work with on a daily basis I guess I wouldn’t be the success I am today.

Q: Are any of the best SEO techniques ever disclosed in open forums?

A: Hell no!

Q: After a period of time it gets to where many advanced people stop learning as much from forums. You still regularly help at multiple forums. Do you still find yourself learning from them, or do you do that for friendships & comrodery, or do you do it to give back?

A: To be honest I do it for friendship and camaraderie – and you never know when you might need their help one day. There are still things that I learn in a sense, or get an idea to test from the threads that people start. As a close friend of mine said to me, "…some day, and that day may never come, I may call upon you to do a service for me… " - I think he stole the lines but the sentiment is there anyway.

>>though i find helping

>>though i find helping newbies on forums not nearly as rewarding as i did 3/4 yrs ago now...

it's the quality of the newby as much as anything - it is really nice when you go through stuff and see the lightbulb come on, especially when they say thanks and hang around and start answering stuff as well as asking.

But as forums get bigger you get more of the little shits who turn up, ask rudely, don't say thanks and dissapear after 5 posts. Oh and some of them give you abuse before they go just for kicks. Gotta love them ones.

But at least I caught Lots0 while he was still a nice old man ;)

Out of forums favours are what makes the world go around.

Forums still give valuable information - occasionally

I got a great deal of information and help on the 302 problems - a subject that I was deeply ignorant of - some may say I still am.

Nevertheless I was able to gleen the necessary information to ameliorate the problem I had.

Same is true of stitching together www.mysite and mysite

>forums Besides going


Besides going offline, the good-ol-boy network of seo has pretty much evolved into a series communication by grunts and nods. It's not because it's a supersecret society requiring special handshakes or decoder rings but it's all that's needed when the right people are around.


you forgot winks ;)

but your right on the money there


>>communication by grunts

>>communication by grunts and nods.

... visualizing image... not good ;-)

Grunts and nods

So *that* is why I couldn't communicate at stansted, not my deep personality issues and lack of useful knowledge after all, I was trying to use *English* ;O)

>not my deep personality

>not my deep personality issues

If those with deep personality issues or lack of useful knowledge were excluded half the web would be gone.

I like helping people. And

I like helping people. And while I do it so people will help me back some day, I like the friendship and camaraderie. It really is "who you know."

I am grateful for the friendships on this board and some others.


If those with deep personality issues or lack of useful knowledge were excluded half the web would be gone.

After a long day moderating forums, deactivating spammers and working on the web doing real work, I about spat out my drink at this. :)

Lotso Testimonial

On maybe my third ever post to an SEO forum, I asked for a site review and was utterly ripped to shreds by someone who claimed to be "helping me the hard way". The person however, offered no useful advice, just insults.

Lotso came in behind the ripper and gave me half a dozen useful suggestions (that I implemented right away) and pointed out some things I was doing right. It made all the difference to a newbie.

I doubt he even remembers, but I'll never forget. So, no matter how rough and mean he pretends to be, I've still got a soft spot for the bitter old man... ;-)

bartered hosting

Back in 2000, I met a guy through a newsgroup who needed help with his IIS server. He now runs about 30 servers in his hosting and ecommerce operations.

We have a deal. I do admin work or coding when he asks and my machines sit there without charge. We also abuse each other verbally and make plans to get together which never happens.

I have virtually stopped answering posts over at WMW unless a mod bumps it or a mod/long time contributor is doing the asking. When I do answer, if it is a newish member, I will point out where they should look for detailed information. Usually the help file, documentation, MSDN, SQL BOL, etc. My participation in that particular thread ends at that point. Teach a man to fish ....

What I am noticing is that there are too many people who are just not suited technically to be considering the internet as a business avenue. Perhaps it is a side effect of downsizing all over the world. I also notice that they do not even do the most basic of research into help files and documentation before firing off their plea/demand for "HELP ME NOW!!!" as the subtitle. Yeah, right away sir!

OTOH, I will spend hours on the phone with someone telling him why one of my products won't do what he wants, but explaining to him how to do it another way or with another product.

I guess I like my karma to be up close and personal :)

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