List of Top Earning Affiliates

104 comments
Source Title:
List of Top Earning Affilaites
Story Text:

Not sure if I'm living under a rock or if this is new, but it's a list of top earning affilaites for affiliate managers to buy, and gain some intel on affiliates. Now of course it might be kind of interesting for an affiliate as well to see who's listed.

I picked this up from a new affiliate manager I'm working with. He publishes an RSS feed with updates and info about all of the different products he represents and any other news he needs/wants to pass along. Pretty smart idea methinks.

Comments

Interesting..

...but is it worth buying? Anyone with it who can recommend it?

It seems ...

... that this unidentified blogger would prefer NOT to be on the list.

http://affiliatelists.blogspot.com/

If what this person says is accurate, it reflects badly on both the quality of the info included, and also the ethics of how it was collected. Lots of unanswered questions ...

Is nothing sacred?

Home address, home phone, financial information ... personal poetry? Is nothing sacred anymore? This sounds like a Homeland Security check - not a leads list. Questions about where the financial information was obtained are especially troubling.

http://affiliatelists.blogspot.com/2005/07/what-does-jeff-know.html

...but is it worth buying?

I'm told that the list is "CRAP"

More than one affiliate.....

has contacted me privately saying they are less than thrilled (cough) to be on the list. I wonder about the value to AMs who buy the list if there are folks on it who don't want to be on it. What reaction will those AMs receive when they attempt to contact those affs?

And I suppose ThreadWatch will now also fall under the umbrella of "Lenin munions" since all the responses here aren't in favor of the list..unless of course all dissenters have actually purchased the list at the now going rate of $399. Ref: http://www.affiliatetip.com/blog/archives/the_useful_idiots_of_affiliate_marketing.html

I am a bit befuddled at the extent some are being willing to stick out their own necks in support of the List for Jeff. It seems to have been one mis-step after another (beginning with the implementation of the List which is the root of many of the concerns).

Dear Befuddled...

> I am a bit befuddled at the extent some are being willing to stick out their own necks in support of the List for Jeff.

In my case, I have pointed out that some of the vocal opponents of Jeff's list are blindly reciting the words of others.

I'm always up for a cogent argument with anybody who doesn't need cue cards to figure out their opinion on an issue.

... doesn't need cue cards ...

Ad hominem attacks are not helpful, Shawn. The issue that matters isn't whether someone repeats another person's words, it's whether the words are accurate in the first place. What has been said that you specifically disagree with?

Something I'm wondering: It's pretty clear that not everyone on the list is on it willingly. How do the CAN-SPAM laws apply here?

Just the facts

I disagree with speculation of the source, contents etc. of the list from people that have neither seen the report, nor bothered to simply ask Jeff.

And I suppose ThreadWatch

Quote:
And I suppose ThreadWatch will now also fall under the umbrella of "Lenin munions" since all the responses here aren't in favor of the list

Is that good or bad for TW? I've no idea what it means...

I know nothing of the list personally, but it did "feel" a bit dodgy - having said that though, selling marketing data, selling leads, is quite a common practice in almost all industries worth a $ or 2 - it's not particulary pretty, but i can't see that there is a) much that can be done or b) much that should be done. That's just how things work.

The questions should be, is the data any good, and can i get off the list?

Chill

This aint ABW guys.

I've been known to do a "mad butcher of bakersville" when threads get narky - play nice please :)

Is The Data Good?

Nick to your question...I did purchase the List and have a copy of it. I have found some inaccuracies in the data. I can't say what % of the overall data is inaccurate.

Can folks get off the List? At least one affiliate has told me they tried and was told no. OTOH, I've also had one aff (with inaccurate contact info in their listing) tell me Jeff agreed to correct the information for them. Of course that doesn't help the folks who already bought the List since it is in PDF format.

Nick Took Your Question...

of 'data good' to mean accurate vs good as in helpful.

This guy says he couldnt get

This guy says he couldnt get off

Yes, accurate, and of value

Value, wild speculation, etc.

Nick:
Since value is up for debate (amid the mud slinging which I otherwise let stand w/o comment in other forums and, now, hate blogs), I feel that it's fair for me to step in and comment. We recently received the below from a customer and feel comfortable posting it here at Threadwatch. This person reached out pro-actively to speak directly to the "is it valuable" question.

"The Affiliate List is the best money our company has spent in quite a while. As the Affiliate Manager for my company, I manage several people who are involved in searching for Top Affiliates with whom we can develop relationships. The Affiliate List has given me the ability to work much more efficiently with my team as we contact affiliates who want to work with us. The format of the list is clean, well-planned, and user-friendly..."

Sue Sharp
Affiliate Manager
1-800-Patches, Inc.

If one takes the time to read things like our Terms of Use, Privacy Policy, etc. one can, as Shawn points out, understand *everything* relating to details that many people would prefer to speculate on... ranging from data source to "freshness" of data and "inaccuracies." Data changes DAILY and in our Terms of Use this is made very clear. Hence, if you buy this product you are *aware* that parts of it may have already become outdated and accept this fact.

To date we have not had a single customer suggest that this was not worth their investment. In fact, many have contacted us to insist that the data was far more valuable than what we're charging to access it... that they don't want it to be so accessible. It's "that good" they say.

In all candor, the wild speculation regarding source of data, data contained within it (people are actually suggesting that we're publishing people's revenue numbers... all while people like Kellie, who stand in a perfect position to correct such lunacy, stand idly by) has lead to increased attention that we otherwise would not have received. Affiliate sales are far more brisk than would have been expected.

Thanks for the opportunity to share the facts.

Off the list

I'm sorry... I didn't answer the "off the list" issue. If an affiliate who finds themselves on this list contacts us and presents us with a reason why they should not be included on the list - and we agree with this business-based reasoning - they will be removed. I actually spoke to one such affiliate (one of two that asked to be removed) this week. They had a very well-articulated, business-based reason why they should not be listed. Removing them adds value.

Simply asking to be removed because one "doesn't want to be / feel like being on it" will probably not result in removal.

As evidenced by the list itself, every piece of information listed is publicly accessible from various third-party sources - some of whom sold information to our company (gasp!). Can I say that one more time, please Nick? Every piece of information listed is publicly accessible.

For those who may not be aware iCANN actually allows bulk sale of registration information by registrars. For those who might be interested you can find details summarized in a comment made here.

Simply asking to be

" Simply asking to be removed because one "doesn't want to be / feel like being on it" will probably not result in removal "

... straight from the horse's mouth ...

No comment.

Phone Numbers

I'm assuming the list was "scrubbed" against the Do Not Call Registry. That would be an easy way for people to prevent themselves from getting unsolicited calls, and have a legal recourse when violated.

If an affiliate who finds

If an affiliate who finds themselves on this list contacts us and presents us with a reason why they should not be included on the list - and we agree with this business-based reasoning - they will be removed.

How about I sign you up for every type of spam in the world, and then only remove you if I agree with your business-based reasoning.

It sounds a bit stupid when phrased that way, doesn't it?

This is why

Honestly, this is why I don't participate in the "discussions" elsewhere and will now cease to here at Threadwatch (inside this thread, of course). I'm sorry, Nick. I think this happened once before. I have to say that I'm rather surprised to see someone from SEOBook in here (who I hold in high regard) tossing around irrelevant comments (we are not signing anyone up for anything and operate under a published privacy policy, terms of service, etc.; seems fairly difficult to draw a logical tangent to spammers IMHO) which would seem to appease the angry crowd as they chant "burn the witch... BURN THE WITCH!"

Also, we are not a telemarketing company. If our clients are a "seller" or "telemarketer", as defined by the FTC, they are bound by the FTC's regulations for sure.

In parting, I encourage everyone to read the hate blogs and, also, my comments at the link listed above (Revenews) re: the iCANN regulations and what is permitted. Not that I expect anyone to be any less horrified with our product, the direct marketing industry, iCANN or anyone else. I do not. I'm merely here pointing out relevant and interesting facts.

Nick's initial comment re: a multi-billion dollar industry are in line with my comments at Revenews. In summary (of my comments): Some people hate business lists. That's fine. I respect that viewpoint and ask the same from others. I don't, of course, expect to receive anyone's automatic respect. I expect only to receive lunatic rantings from a handful of affiliates that didn't make the cut and/or claim that they did but I refused to remove them. Our company has expected this since day one.

we are not signing anyone up

we are not signing anyone up for anything and operate under a published privacy policy

but do the people who buy your list operate under the same policy? how do you know?

if you are harvesting contact information for people who do not want to be contacted, ask not to be contacted, and sell that data to people who will contact them then you are enabeling people to spam them via phone or email or however you recommend people contact them.

The product could be good as gold, but my point is that there shouldn't be any special conditions to be removed (or at the least, it should say this person is not partnering with new merchants at this time - and I say this as a person who turns down 20 plus joint venture partnerships, affiliate partnerships, and prospective clients every month).

If someone does not want on the list then they probably should be able to get off just by asking.

I have had numorous hate threads, articles, and sites wrote about me too. I know it is not fun. I am not saying the product is bad, just that if a person does not want to be on that list then they should get removed with no questions asked.

Imagine a merchant who contacts a person who does not want to be contacted.

"Hey, I saw you on the list..."

"great, I told him to take me off that. I am not interested in your program"

in that regard people will place their frustration from being contacted too often squarely on the shoulders of the people contacting them, who did not really know that the person did not want contacted.

It is all about filtering through noise. cool that you want to help merchants do it, but if it is at the expense of affiliates who do not want more noise in their lives than you should respect that.

Logic Flaw

So you want to sell merchants a list of people to contact, knowing full well that some of them have asked not to be contacted and removed from the list? Gee I'm sure I'd want to buy that.

Affiliate Hit List

Erm, I don't think its merchants he has in mind as the main customers - thats just misdirection. I think it is reasonably forseeable that the majority of customers for this list will be unlikely to call their targets on the phone.

Crain's Chicago Business

Crain's is a very well respected magazine that is well known for producing all kinds of business lists. Tough luck if your company doesn't want to be included. If Crain's did this list few people would complain - and many more would find value. Good job.

"Some people hate business lists"

Some people hate everything, but what does that have to do with someone putting out an idiotic list that has no chance to be accurate? I was just talking to an "affiliate" who makes $300k+ a month. Not a penny is public knowledge. Is this person on the list? I don't know but it doesn't matter either way. Any numbers involving this person would be pulled out of someone's butt, or would be violating the affiliate agreements involved. And if this person isn't on the list the only reply to that is all listed people make 350k+, or the list is a laughable joke. I'll take the latter.

Greater fool marketing lives.

To be fair, the list is sold

To be fair, the list is sold as "over 200 of the most productive retail-focused affiliates." (That quote is from the site that sells the list.)

There could well be high-earning affiliates who are not on the list because they're not "retail-focused".

----------

Even if the list includes only publicly available information, the mere fact that the people on it are touted as "the top affiliates" "proven leaders" "key affiliates" means that the list compiler is getting earnings numbers from somewhere to make those judgements.

Jeff, please tell us more about that. How did you find out what the affiliates on the list earned? How did you decide whom to label as a "proven leader"?

Sensible questions

Sensible questions buckworks...

I have to reiterate that business lists are extremely common. If you've ever worked in marketing outside of what you do now you'll know this.

Though seobooks 2nd point about the worth of a list containing people predisposed to being angry at being contacted is well made.

To be fair...

'To be fair, the list is sold as "over 200 of the most productive retail-focused affiliates."'

That is different. Both "most" and "retail" render the list more meaningless than anything else, though what it should be, given that description, is a very useful tool, if done by somebody with a clue. Guessing 200 of the top say 300 in any niche would be a skill and useful info. Still, to claim any exactitude or certainty would be dishonest at best.

Got legal advice?

In the uk there are laws about which PERSONAL details you can store, forward or sell. Business details are dealt with differently. It seems from the "hate" information that personal contact details are being used in lieu of business details in some cases?

Also the uk data protection laws allow any person to contact a database holder for full disclosure of the type and detail of any information stored about them. If you want to know if you are on this list, seems to me under UK law you can just ask - you don't need to buy the full list (a reasonable admin fee of £10 is usually charged). Doesn't matter how this information was obtained. IANAL but I think there is a good chance it doesn't matter about Geography if the list contains details of UK citizens?

It seems though apart from the "please remove me" there is little here that is new in business, just new for aff marketing. The main market seems to be people who want to know where they are on the league table.

business lists are extremely common

Quote:
I have to reiterate that business lists are extremely common. If you've ever worked in marketing outside of what you do now you'll know this.

Well, I have.

I also know that while business lists are common, outside access to contractually confidential financial data is not.

Some comments

I offer some comments that will answer questions raised since things seem to be on a more level-headed track.

1) I have offered my biography many places on the Web, including the site where this product is sold. If it remains a mystery as to where I've seen the data (that allows me to pass judgment on retail focused affiliates) after helping found an affiliate network, lead the sales effort at the leading affiliate data services provider and manage dozens of programs as an outsourced services provider to marketers... well, then, I'm sorry. Believe it or not, Elisabeth, people who are employed with such companies and in such positions can actually view data without distributing it. Right now there are dozens of people with access to every affiliate's data out there... their financial information either in part or in whole. They're looking at it right now perhaps. Hey look - there's an affiliate manager looking at it. Now there's an employee at a network looking at it and they're looking, also, at your SEO techniques. Maybe they'll leave their $70K a year position and become an affiliate. Hold the show, now there's three guys from Overture (I shall not name them but most should know who they are) who broke away and are some of the largest affiliates out there to date. How? By leveraging the data they *saw* (didn't take or sell!) from within Goto/Overture.

2) "...but do the people who buy your list operate under the same policy? how do you know?"

I assume you expect me to answer this... so I will. We do not know; hence, the Terms of Use policy where we have power over our customers. We cannot control everything.

3) The entire debate regarding removal hinges... relies upon... the notion that *some* affiliates don't want to be contacted - ever. Some have denied... I repeat denied... their advertising partners access to who they are as a business entity. Why?

* They find things like business address, phone number, etc. to be un-necessary to their business relationship and find that anonymity fostered (until recently) by affiliate networks to work just fine; in fact, it is preferred and needed in order for them to "get the job done."

* They believe advertisers don't "deserve" (note the emotion attached to that word) this information... it's too private and advertisers shouldn't worry about who they're partnered with nor hold them accountable - for anything related to the business relationship they maintain

* They are hiding something (i.e. trademark infringement or type-o domain squatting... which is either permitted or overlooked many times yet they know is something they'd rather not flaunt)

Personal contact information (available publicly) is being used in lieu of business cases (widely speaking) because affiliates are denying business contact information. Linkshare's Project Athena is one example of how this problem has manifested itself (and of course Athena is how Linkshare seeks to eliminate the problem of the anonymous gaming of their most valued resource - their systems). Rumor has it that CJ is also underway with a similar housecleaning.

Yes, I have always asked myself "why would an advertiser work with someone they couldn't hold accountable, know, find, locate, talk with" etc. The answer is clear: They don't always care to know the *dirty* details... they just want the sale or lead. That stated, if this industry wants to earn a decent reputation it's got to dig itself out and this list, project Athena and other initiatives are along this same vein: Transparency.

"If you are harvesting contact information for people who do not want to be contacted, ask not to be contacted, and sell that data to people who will contact them then you are enabling people to spam them via phone or email or however you recommend people contact them."

I'm afraid your premise is false. None of these people have ever told anyone that they've not wanted to be contacted in regard to affiliate marketing opportunities. Frankly, those that hide within the affiliate networks (by providing false information) have not even told the phone company to un-list them. In fact, they've told advertisers, in effect, to contact them by signing up with affiliate networks and (knowingly) making their contact information available within those systems.

As I see it, spamming, as you define it above, has been going on for years and is called "cold calling" and "direct mail." Spam is "unwanted e-mail" and broadly defined. It can include "unsolicited commercial email" but, as we all know, a piece of UCE can be helpful and useful. I get UCE all the time from prospective business partners, blog readers, etc. It's ALL unsolicited and commercial... and if I don't care to return the sales person's pitch I don't.

SEOBook... your example is a great one, yes. Certainly we would consider that factor (an affiliate not taking more relationships); however, as an experienced (former) program manager I can tell you that this is a "wall" that can easily be broken down. In particular, niche advertisers may very well deserve a slot considering how lousy big brands perform. Example: I was once told "we're not taking more partners" by a large affiliate and convinced him that he was leaving money on the table. How? He told me that he didn't need any more specialty food partners. He had 1800Flowers and they sell every kind of imaginable food - he was done with me. The fact is that he was leaving money on the table because 1800Flowers isn't, yet, a specialty food destination for consumers. I convinced him of this in a heartbeat. Secondly, even if they were my client was the largest purveyor of a specific kind of specialty seafood in the U.S. and had phenomenal customer service abilities. He was convinced and let them in and the relationship is profitable today. If I (or others) simply walk away from the opportunity without "selling into" it properly (in this case, asking the affiliate to slow down for a minute and not make blind assumptions about what's actually going on) then everyone loses.

Also, we are publishing (along with our product) a guide book. This is just now being released. So... to your example:

"Hey, I saw you on the list..."
"great, I told him to take me off that. I am not interested in your program"

This is not the right approach. It's not something that we can control yet customers have asked "how do we use this list properly?" (beyond not spamming, etc.) Hence, we offer a guide to doing "good" business development. What is "good?" Good is basic sales skills and here's what comes before all else in sales: RESPECT FOR THE OTHER PERSON'S TIME! If you don't show that in the first breath (i.e. "hello, my name is Jeff... do you have a moment where I can tell you about my client who would like to discuss a partnership with you?") you're LOST.

Believe it or not, there are people out there who understand that this is the proper, winning approach and who honor (respect) people who may say "no, I'm not interested" or "can you call back later, this is a bad time" or "no, I don't do this on the phone, please put your partnership opportunity in a short email to me."

Again, there is no DNC list for affiliates - that I know of. Aside from the affiliates who wish to engage in trickery and other mischief, if there's demand out there for affiliates to not be contacted by merchants then why do they sign up for **networks** of merchants and publish contact information? (farily rhetorical)

Personal contact information

Quote:
Personal contact information (available publicly) is being used in lieu of business cases (widely speaking) because affiliates are denying business contact information.

Denying you the information. If those on the list don't have a business relationship with you it's their perogative to deny you their personal information. If an affiliate chooses not to provide their home address and personal phone number to advertisers they've no business relationship with, that's also their perogative.

In fact, there is no valid reason an affiliate's business address and business phone should not be sufficient to do business. I don't have the home address and personal home phone of the advertisers or AM's I work with - it's not required in order for me to do business with them, nor is it relevant. I wouldn't dream of asking for it - and I don't make the sweeping assumption something dodgy is going on if they don't cheerily volunteer it.

>>>...and we agree with this

>>>...and we agree with this business-based reasoning...

Bull shite

If someone wants removed from this list of yours, just remove them. To question them or not remove them is just being a scumbag.

Selling your "customers" invalid or bad data must just be a part of your business.

Selling the contact info for affiliates that don't want to be contacted and won't accept any new clients, is at best slimy and at worst criminal, IMO.

Who would buy this list and what good would it do them? Every good affiliate I know SELECTS their business partners, not the other way around.

Good affiliates that I know (you know the top 200 or so) all run away or hang up at the first sign of sales speak from some unknown wanna be affiliate manager.

Any affiliate that starts hooking up with folks that cold call or send emails(spam) asking you to sell their products, is looking to get ripped off and/or lose money. I thought EVERY good affiliate knew that (not just the top 200).

Or maybe I am just sore I am not on this list... I want a bunch of wanna be affiliate managers with broken and/or heavily accented English calling me at home when I am sitting down to dinner...

Some lists are useful, others are just a rippoff - guess which one I think this list is.

Heavily Accented English

Please be civil - there is no reason to lower the caliber of this thread by making fun of my New Jersey accent.

Do you have heavily accented

Do you have heavily accented English Shawn?

I didn't notice..?

:-)

A New Jersey accent

is not really English... ;-)

"where I've seen the data"

If a former employee of my bank "leverages" my social security number, or address, or bank account number, I'm going to see he is leveraged into jail where he belongs.

It's true anyone working in Internet marketing should assume there are some untrustworthy rats working as part of companies they do business with, but when the rats rear their heads they need to be knocked back into their holes where they belong.

Shit guys, don't make me go

Shit guys, don't make me go butchersville on this thread eh?

You know i'll do it. And it won't be done with tact, i'll nuke every fucking libelous comment in the thread - which means most of tehm - slate jeff into the ground, that's cool - but man, keep it professional!

I nuke very, very little here - don't let this thread be one of them, plese.

We agree

Eaglefire, you and I agree on all your last points.

Ssite, I find it impossible to draw tangents between understanding, broadly, that an affiliate can produce for a broad group of marketers and then matching that knowledge with information available from Whois, MarketLeap, Google, the affiliate site itself, etc. etc. and misappropriating social security numbers and/or financial information from a bank. If you can draw that parallel... well then, good for you but I cannot.

Rat, criminal, scumbag... yada-yada. I'm here to talk logically and without calling people names. What are you (all) here for? Perhaps we should re-brand Threadwatch.org to Abestwebwatch.com.

without calling people

Quote:
without calling people names.
Quote:
Perhaps we should re-brand Threadwatch.org to Abestwebwatch.com

Jeff, you're contradicting yourself there (and not for the first time).

If you're here to talk logically, do exactly that, please.

"If you can draw that parallel..."

Talking logically would be nice. Having worked for an affiliate company, and knowing who is a productive affiliate, and then telling other people confidential information that you know, is a betrayal of your former employee and a criminal act involving the affiliate. Publishing public info about people without consent is just rude, so you can live with yourself for that, but using information that was confidential as the seed is deplorable human behavior.

I have been to, "seen", a lot of multi-million dollar homes of people I've been in business with. I could publish their addresses. I could reveal what security companies they use. I could do all sorts of things that matches my private information with public records, and then I could somehow ludicrously rank these people (as if no one exists except people I've done business with), but it would be bad human behavior... and if any of these people had me sign T&Cs before I entered their homes, then I'd be a criminal, too.

understanding, broadly,

Quote:
understanding, broadly, that an affiliate can produce for a broad group of marketers

The ethical problem here, Jeff, is that (according to your own words) you gained at least some of that "broad understanding" from sources that were supposed to be confidential.

Sorry, Nick...

Well, it would appear that we're moments away from the thread vaporizing. I would support such a decision if Nick makes it. But before that happens let me offer my sincere congratulations to all who call Abestweb home and who've taken time out of their productive lives to join us here today.

Am I reading this

Am I reading this right?

Some dude steals confidential information from the company/clients he worked for sells it and then procedes to berate people who question the "morality" of those actions?

Do Not Call

Personal contact information (available publicly) is being used in lieu of business cases (widely speaking) because affiliates are denying business contact information.

Again, there is no DNC list for affiliates

If you call a person's home phone number and they have registered it with the Do Not Call list, you or the people you have sold it to are in violation, plain and simple. The DNC list is not applicable for businesses, so if you can't obtain a business number, substituting in a personal number for convenience sake is shaky ground to be on.

Why you fail to remove people who ask to be is really mind-boggling. Which list has more value 200 who might want to be contacted, or 100 who do? If I'm an affiliate manager I don't want to buy a list of people who are angry and confrontational every time I try to call them.

Uh, Jeff, that "other board"

Uh, Jeff, that "other board" has nothing to do with this discussion.

Diversionary tactics and straw men are faulty logic. Stick to the issues.

Hatchet

I see the hatchet is out and am sorry that Nick has been forced to do this. So...

If anyone has anything they would like to have answered please let me know. I will address each and every question you have; however, I will not address comments that, in the end, speak to how you "feel" about the product and/or how it was created. I believe that this is the source of why Nick has been forced to edit comments and I will not participate in creating more work for him (not to mention wasting my own valuable time; I don't really care to discuss feelings in this forum).

Further, wild and unbridled speculation that is based on either no information, false information or fabricated information (NFFC's entry is the latest example of pure fiction that is easily dismantled based on facts presented in this thread which he/she claims to have read) is the reason why I have not answered the calls of other board moderators who's members have concerns. I thought that it might be different here at Threadwatch. So far, and I'm sorry to say this Nick, it's more noise than signal. I say I'm sorry as I know you work hard to keep this place clean and, above all else, useful.

>pure fiction And I

>pure fiction

And I quote;

"If it remains a mystery as to where I've seen the data (that allows me to pass judgment on retail focused affiliates) after helping found an affiliate network, lead the sales effort at the leading affiliate data services provider and manage dozens of programs as an outsourced services provider to marketers"

>he/she

I transend gender, much as the young James Dean once did.

Question

Jeff how does keeping a list of people who don't want to be contacted, make it more valuable to your customers who are buying it?

Thanks

Thanks, Graywolf.
The obvious answer is it doesn't. There is one affiliate who has asked to be removed. I told her that she'd probably be removed based on the reasoning that she presented to me. I had to ask for these reasons. They were well thought out and I took them as truthful and honest... I had no reason to think otherwise. She felt it was best for me to know these things. She advised me. I appreciated that.

Then, as you know, she started a blog to soothe what appears to be some kind of severe pain. I have no idea what that pain is but she seems to be helping herself now by screaming bloody murder into her blog and publishing my e-mails to her. Contrary to the "mass outrage" tone of this thread, nobody else has presented themselves to our company as not wanting to be on the list.

Follow Up

If as you say there is no "mass outrage" of people wanting off the list, then it should be easy and painless to accomodate those few who do want out, for whatever reason. Accomodating them would not only make the troublemakers happy, but make the list more valuable to your customers as well, don'tcha think?

Definitely Maybe

she'd probably be removed

as a direct marketer...

  • understanding the value of your own time
  • the viral nature of the web
  • the value of word of mouth marketing

does it make any sense to list only one person who does not want to be on that list and waste all of these resources over that one listing.

Seems penny wise, pound foolish to me. Probably a bit more of the story is going untold?

Contrary to the "mass outrage" tone of this thread, nobody else has presented themselves to our company as not wanting to be on the list.

And yet it took 50 plus comments for you to state that, and you still are only at probably...

something doesn't smell right

There is one affiliate who has asked to be removed. I told her that she'd probably......

I wrote you on 6/24 and told you to take me off your little list. I told you that I did not appreciate you getting my information from where you did and that I wanted to be removed. After I sent that email, you quit writing me back.

The only thing that I am really greatfull for is that 95% of the information you have about me is wrong.

Get your lies straight. And the above is the TRUTH without any exaggeration. I have the email to prove it.

(one of two that asked to

Quote:
(one of two that asked to be removed)
Quote:
There is one affiliate who has asked to be removed.

Another contradiction.

Quote:
publishing my e-mails to her

So you're confirming that the blogger did not make that stuff up?

Interesting ...

>understanding, broadly,

>understanding, broadly, that an affiliate can produce for a broad group of marketers

Jeff - did you acquire your understanding of the market worth of particular affiliates from the data you saw while working at affiliate networks?

.

I've read through this whole

I've read through this whole thread and I can't figure out where the information about someone's financial information is public record anywhere. Yes, whois info, I understand, but how are the actual sales of particular affiliates being legally accessed and disseminated? I haven't seen the list and I know that I wouldn't be on it, but I would be
horrified if I was. As long as I follow each company's TOS, I deserve to have my information to be used only by them...and only to pay me. My home address and my home phone number are my business, not for sale to random people throughout the world. I have an unlisted phone number for a reason.

I hope that the person(s) involved in selling this information are including their own personal information in the PDF. After all, if affiliates' info should be public, so should affiliate disseminator's info, right?

Clean Up

Firstly, my apologies for being a bit snippy last night, i'd been a long and somewhat trying day :)

I've cleaned up a bit, including nuking my own post - if you've been edited, you know why. Having said that, i'd like to thank everyone for keeping this thread professional, and 'threadwatchy' i've no intention of nuking the entire thing, i was just a bit pissed off - but i will be monitoring, and cleaning up when needed.

It's a beautiful day in Denmark today, the sun is shining, it's HOT HOT HOT and my 34th - im planning on spending the afternoon playing in the paddling pool with Robyn, and having a few beers in the sun, hooray!

Have a great weekend everyone, and thanks once again

Responses

Graywolf:
Yes, it is a simple process; however, it is our company's decision on who shall remain and who shall be removed... and when. You might find it interesting to know that we also receive pushy emails on the opposite side of the spectrum... from affiliates who want to be included and feel slighted just as we receive messages from those who want to be removed. We even have a few that want to issue press releases they're so happy to be included. Bottom line, we are not in the business of offering accommodations to other businesses. We, like any other company, have a product and that product has both perceived value and actual value. Accommodating the concerns of affiliates which involve privacy is of top concern and was PRIOR to the release of our product, hence we have a Privacy Policy and a Terms of Use statement which allows us to control abuses by any of our customers who might engage in spamming.

Ditty:
Greetings. I was not surprised when you contacted us and your email has been prioritized accordingly. Please understand that nobody here is ignoring you. I have your email. The tone of this message, IMO, is somewhat angry and terse and I hope that you might be looking for a constructive dialog rather than issuing demands.

SEObook:
You can engage in speculation to your heart's desire and with your own motives. The reason I've invested time here in explaining issues is as follows: I know who is tuned in to Threadwatch and I find their concerns to be valid - regardless off how baseless they might be or what other forums they originated in. This may surprise some who feel that I have simply been ignoring them. I have not. I have chosen a forum to respond to their concerns carefully. I respect Nick's ability to run a constructive forum and I respect the opinions of people here at Threadwatch. If the fact that I don't make instant decisions gives you fuel to speculate that I'm not telling the whole story that's fine with me and I can't control that.

Similarly, yes Elisabeth, there have been 2 affiliates. My mistake. I make those too and Ditty was the second affiliate. This is not the first time (although it's the first here at Threadwatch) that you've jumped on me and suggested that I'm not to be trusted due to an error I made and owned up to. If you believe that pointing at my mistakes makes me dishonest and demonstrates that there's more to the story that I'm not telling you, that's your business. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are happy to see me make mistakes and will capitalize on them by hooting and hollering. Also, I'm not confirming anything re: the mystery blogger (why the mystery? why not come right out and tell it like it is, stating who they are? this is a rhetoric question, of course). I'm acknowledging that they're publishing pieces of email messages I sent. I'm not interested in pointing at what's truthful and not truthful within this blog and, in fact, I'm not interested in investing time reading someone's angry rants.

As a reminder for those reading the whole thread, please don't forget to read the portion that discusses affiliates who force networks and/or advertisers to accept either falsified or home addresses/phone numbers as their business contact information. In many cases, affiliates are Sole Proprietors who work from home; hence, one's home phone number is their work phone number. Operating a business from home requires one to register that business with state and federal IRS among other public agencies... who, many times, sell that information and/or make it publicly available via the Web.

Kindly note: I will not be addressing questions that have already been answered.

Enjoy your weekend, all.
Nick, enjoy your beers (rather I hope you did by now).

>As a reminder for those

>As a reminder for those reading the whole thread, please don't forget to read the portion that discusses affiliates who force networks and/or advertisers to accept either falsified or home addresses/phone numbers as their business contact information.

Ah, so its the nasty scummy affs fault, now I get it.

I don't quite understand where your desire to become the Al Goldstein of the www comes from, I can only assume either youth or lack of experience.

Let me share a story with you, may help may not. One day, many years ago, I walked past a friends house and just happened to glance his wife getting undressed. She was a very nicely built women [if you are into women] and I was very happy that my knowledge and experience had been enhanced, if only I had been happy with that. Instead of keeping such knowledge to myself I decide to tell a couple of friends in the pub, it was that action that resulted a in punch on the nose. Try and use that to help you see past the trees in you own issues, remeber it wasn't the fact that I saw his wifes tits that got me the punch on the nose, it was the fact that I told somebody I saw his wifes tits that did it. You see?

Your words are not mine

NFFC:
The only reason I'm responding to this is because your story and Al's image made me laugh a little. I appreciate your humor although it is directed at me in a negative light... and I respect your belief that nobody likes what I say.

That stated, I did not say that it's the nasty scummy affiliate's fault. I said what you quoted. Based on your sneering comments, it's not surprising that you didn't quote my specific comment that addresses the exact issue you point to... from earlier:

3) The entire debate regarding removal hinges... relies upon... the notion that *some* affiliates don't want to be contacted - ever. Some have denied... I repeat denied... their advertising partners access to who they are as a business entity.

You suggested that I believe something that I never said. Where is Buckworks to bust you and challenge your motives? Again, this dialog is veering off course.

Scratching Head

Jeff, I have to admit you really have me confused. You admitting having people on the list who don't want to be doesn't add value to it. You also admitted it's simple to remove them. It could quite possibly be that I'm missing the big picture, but why would you refuse to make an improvement that increases a products value actual or percieved, escpecially when it's simple? Please explain the logic behind this to me, because I really want to understand it.

To clarify in case someone

To clarify in case someone reading this thread doesn't happen to know, I'm the one Jeff addresses as Elisabeth.

Quote:
This is not the first time (although it's the first here at Threadwatch) that you've jumped on me and suggested that I'm not to be trusted due to an error I made and owned up to.

Don't take it personally, Jeff; I jump on errors when I spot them no matter who makes them. If you don't like it when folks jump on your errors, take more care to get your facts straight in the first place.

I don't have time to say more right now, but the unidentified blogger has some interesting thoughts on corporate lists that are worth a read. I agree strongly.

http://affiliatelists.blogspot.com/2005/07/not-so-common-practice.html

+added+ - I didn't pounce on anything NFFC said because if there were any errors, I missed them. Someone else will have to do that.

Logic

Graywolf:
Sorry you're confused but I suspect I know why. Like any company, ours will determine what is valuable and what is not valuable to build into our product. We will not be told what is and is not by anyone but our customers. Doing so would be to misguide ourselves and not serve them.

I'm happy to explain things here at Threadwatch but the micro-examination of the above stated fact is really starting to tire me. I'm not berating you... just trying to be honest.

Tangent follows:
The rage, so far as I can tell, revolves around how people "feel" about this right. It also is rooted in my having told someone "yes, we will consider your request" rather than, without hesitation, kneeling and kissing their ring. It's that simple.

So far as I can tell, the "privacy" issue revolves around successful affiliates who don't like being known as successful affiliates. They subscribe (as you can see in above comments from affiliates) to the belief that the best way to do business is to log into an affiliate network; set up an account; take links and digital media, promotions, etc.; place them on a Web sites/pages, AdSense links etc. etc. ; send traffic and collect checks. They do not wish to be contacted or interacted with. My belief is that (I've said this many places) this is not the best way to do business. Others disagree and do so with venom sometimes - not offering much respect for this belief.

I hope this helps and I will try to continue to clarify things here at Threadwatch as time permits.

Wonderful discussion! So

Wonderful discussion! So much so that i've put it out on the RSS...

I'd like to ask a question if i may: I'd like to hear jeff's take on Aaeona earlier point: Does the value of such a list diminish if the poeple on it are pre-disposed to anger at being on it?

Angry? Yup. Here's why....

You want to know why I am angry Jeff? It is because you took MY private information from the various places you worked and used it for YOUR monitary gain without even the smallest bit of common courtesy to notify me or the other affiliates.

In my opinion, you abused your power when you worked at those companies and for those affiliate programs and you also violated the agreement we had with them by stealing that information and using it for your own gains. BTW...If stealing is too harsh a word for you, I will let you swap it with "appropriate".

Good question Nick....

My answer is yes. I have already been contacted by 2 merchants that bought his list. Both times, I told them what I thought of the list and how the information was obtained. I will do this for each and EVERY merchant that contacts me from his list. I will also tell them that I will not work with them in any shape or form because of their dealings with jeff and the list.

However you said having them

However you said having them on the list doesn't add value. So taking them off would either a) increase the value or b)have no effect on the value, so which is it?

I applaud you for sticking around, but you really seem to be sidestepping the direct questions.

Anger

Nick:
One again, "feelings" and business don't really seem to go hand in hand. I'm not sure how to answer your question. I had no idea that affiliates could be so predisposed to anger... so much so that they get angry when someone understands how to reach them. Overall, I don't think advertisers are predisposed themselves to wondering "if I call this affiliate, will they be angry?"

Ditty:
I made another mistake. We actually responded to your email demand (I, myself did) on 6/24. I have not heard from you since responding. My response, in summary, was an invitation for dialog on why you were (what I perceived to be) angry. I also offered you a copy of your listing in the product (as I do every affiliate that contacts us) at no cost (obviously!).

The fact that we are sharing listings to affiliates has been posted in numerous forums. So, I offered you a chance to understand exactly what is being published about your company. Any other form of knowledge on your part, which you clearly have (given the contents of your last entry), is a violation of Terms of Use by a customer who has re-distributed their copy of the product or portions thereof. Someone who gave you information is breaking their contract with our company which we take very seriously. I mention as I think it's important that you understand this.

To your last post, we tried repeatedly in March (around the 14th) to make contact with you at the same e-mail address you used to communicate with me in June. It, also, went unresponded to. Therefore, I suggest, you did have the opportunity to engage in discussion and understand more... as others did.

Based on this behavior, I am left with the belief that you do not wish to be spoken to or engaged in discussion... as other affiliates have expressed. Knowing this, we may very well remove your listing; however, this risks diminishing the quality of the list as you are a shining star producer. Bottom line: knowing that you don't want anyone to approach you to discuss a business opportunity doesn't automatically earn removal from the list. Again, it's our decision and I think this is where some of the anger is coming from.

Please note that none of the contact information or any other information is "from the various places" I worked. This is another twist on what I have said and I say this realizing that many will call me a liar etc. (as they already have). I'll take those lumps but will not participate in continuing dialog that is rooted in baseless accusations. When one works with people and companies over the years they, as part of having a heartbeat and brainwaves... memory etc., develop a mental Rolodex of people and companies. Those who stand out are those like yourself... who are better at affiliate marketing than others. To build a business on stolen data would be suicidal. Nonetheless, people love to talk within forums about stolen data. It makes for fun reading.

Chris, if you really believe that this product is "out to get you" or take money out of your pocket I'm disappointed. Quite the opposite. This product is not sold as the cure-all "partner with these, all of these and only these affiliates and you'll hit a home run." We are responsible enough to advise customers that this is a place to start - to learn who the movers and shakers are for retail affiliate programs. The compiled profile data exists to act as a guide in helping the advertiser make decisions on A) approaching the affiliate (i.e. should you bother to?) and B) structuring the approach (understanding enough about the affiliate to know how they should open a discussion and aim it at a goal that is mutually beneficial). Short version from your perspective: The product helps advertisers understand who to consider partnering with and who to leave alone.

Our Terms of Use explicitly spell out that we expect customers to use this information appropriately. Not using it appropriately will not only not serve their cause (right?) but it will also result in their not receiving updates from our company. This is the most we can do to help you grow your business, not profit from pointing at you being successful at what you do. If all we were doing is pointing at successful affiliates nobody would want this product.

Answer

Graywolf:
I don't know yet. That's for me and my company to decide. Right? Thanks for the applause.

I feel...

"feelings" and business don't really seem to go hand in hand

Disagree. Good businesses know how to make people feel good about doing what the businesses want them to do. Bad businesses ignore feelings.

>"feelings" and business

>"feelings" and business don't really seem to go hand in hand

I couldn't disagree more, your short termism will limit your sucess imho. Shame really as I think there is some merit with the concept, I'll bet you somebody makes a big sucess with it.

Question

Ditty:
Assuming we can continue to have a meaningful dialog... you speak as if you are "out to get the list." This is without doubt, in fact.

So...

1) What are you motives? Please consider answering this question... knowing our company's respectful intentions (stated above) and knowing that I will personally consider anyone's request to not be listed (setting aside the fact that I "just don't understand" why someone would only want to talk *at* and not *with* potential advertiser partners). Knowing this, why will you tell everyone "I will not work with you in any shape or form because of your dealings with jeff and the list?"

2) Do you not cast aspersions on advertiser partners, risking alienation of your company, by suggestion or implying that they've done something wrong by making what they consider to be an educated purchase (or do you deem them to be fools)?

3) Do you honestly believe that others on the list will react to their inquiry as you have (with venom)? This would be the only way in which you would not alienate yourself and, in fact, risk losing business opportunity.

Of course, you may choose to not answer any of these questions based on your belief (I assume) that you don't want to talk with advertisers and wish to be left alone to conduct affiliate marketing. If this is your reply I respect that.

exactly, SEOBook

exactly, SEOBook but who's feelings? Brands and businesses that thrive are built around products that make customers feel good as part of delivering value. So far, as you can see on the Web site and posted here from an advertiser, they feel fantastic.

I made another mistake. We

I made another mistake. We actually responded to your email demand (I, myself did) on 6/24. I have not heard from you since responding. My response, in summary, was an invitation for dialog on why you were (what I perceived to be) angry. I also offered you a copy of your listing in the product (as I do every affiliate that contacts us) at no cost (obviously!).

And I replied to you within 5 minutes with this....
I don't care where you got information about me. The fact is, you collected my personal information from several sources, put them together in order to sell that information to others. You didn't even think it was necessary to notify affiliates that they are on the list and that their information was for sale. While there are plenty of people that know how to gather the information you did, there are a lot that don't and I particularly didn't like the fact that you give out to whoever has the dollars, my home address and home phone number. Which, thank God, is no longer valid information. And we do "Email, Opt In list management, Niche Media & Reviews"??? Since when??? That's news to me.

Like I said before, remove any and all information from your theaffiliatelist.com database. Maybe the next poor soul down on your list will appreciate you making money off their personal information more than I do.

I have yet to hear back from YOU. If I had wanted to see your little list, I would have said so.

To your last post, we tried repeatedly in March (around the 14th) to make contact with you at the same e-mail address you used to communicate with me in June. It, also, went unresponded to. Therefore, I suggest, you did have the opportunity to engage in discussion and understand more... as others did.

I stand corrected. You did contact me. And I answered. Your email was worded in such a way that it looked like spam. But Linda replied to you and gave you another email address to use. But did you use that email address? NO. Instead, you used one that had absolutely nothing to do with the site you listed.

Based on this behavior, I am left with the belief that you do not wish to be spoken to or engaged in discussion... as other affiliates have expressed. Knowing this, we may very well remove your listing; however, this risks diminishing the quality of the list as you are a shining star producer. Bottom line: knowing that you don't want anyone to approach you to discuss a business opportunity doesn't automatically earn removal from the list. Again, it's our decision and I think this is where some of the anger is coming from.

Whether I want to be contaced or not doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that you took private information and sold it. You have made repeated comments that I have offered my biography many places on the Web, including the site where this product is sold. If it remains a mystery as to where I've seen the data (that allows me to pass judgment on retail focused affiliates) after helping found an affiliate network, lead the sales effort at the leading affiliate data services provider and manage dozens of programs as an outsourced services provider to marketers... well, then, I'm sorry.. I'll tell you what should get my removal from your list. My simple request. An honest business, would remove information from their lists when requested. Never mind the fact that all the information you have on me is WRONG.

Chris, if you really believe that this product is "out to get you" or take money out of your pocket I'm disappointed.

I never ONCE said this. Show me where I did. What I have issue with is the fact that you stole private information and are currently using it for monetary gains.

Our Terms of Use explicitly spell out that we expect customers to use this information appropriately. Not using it appropriately will not only not serve their cause (right?) but it will also result in their not receiving updates from our company.

So what? They bought it, they now have the information. They can do with it as they please.

This is the most we can do to help you grow your business....

I didn't ask for your help and sure as heck don't want it. If I had wanted your help, I would have asked.

you speak as if you are "out to get the list."

I don't care about your little list. What I care about is that you stole my private information from various merchants that you worked with. You made that comment yourself above.

What are you motives?

My motive is to get off your list. I never asked to be on it. I am NOT a top affiliate and the information you have is wrong and missleading. You are infact selling false information to everyone that buys it.

Do you not cast aspersions....

My asperations are non of your business. What I do with my site affects my site and not you. If I alienate myself, then that is MY problem and not yours.

Do you honestly believe that others on the list will react to their inquiry as you have (with venom)?

Yes. Esp once they learn where you got their information from.

Of course, you may choose to not answer any of these questions

Oh, I chose to and did.

If this is your reply I respect that.

Obviously not. Because if you had cared, you would have sent a detail email to all of the affiliates on your list stating your purpose and then removed those that wanted. Instead, you sent an email that looked like spam and was so general, it said absolutely nothing.

exactly, SEOBook but who's

exactly, SEOBook but who's feelings?

customers
potential customers
those voices which may be seen or heard by potential customers

Brands and businesses that thrive are built around products that make customers feel good as part of delivering value. So far, as you can see on the Web site and posted here from an advertiser, they feel fantastic.

a few feedbacks does not do much to impress me. having been on the internet longer than a day I know it is not uncommon for anyone in internet marketing to get a half dozen or dozen testimonials for their products before it is even launched.

deep down inside you must care or understand how shortsighted some of your statements are, otherwise you would stop participating in the thread.

there are some overtly inauthentic statements in your marketing. you should thank the kind ThreadWatchers for giving you this good of a review. the information in this thread should be worth thousands to your business, should you chose to listen to it.

I understand

Ditty:
I understand your position and I think your words all speak for themselves. To a large degree (and this has been discussed in most detail at Revenews via Jonathan Miller) your complaint / source of anger boils down to not liking that what you consider to be private information is, often times, for sale. This seems to be your biggest complaint yet your approach with me has been, from the get-go, to deliver a pissed off message that does nothing to earn a serious response. I sit here now reading your words, their tone, and have a difficult time not simply walking away and going to mow the lawn. I understand you're angry but making demands of people who you have no control over isn't the best tactic to solve what you perceive as a problem; yet this has been your approach from day one. So far, out of something like 210, we have two angry affiliates that are literally foaming at the mouth over publishing contact information about their Web site and other readily accessible (via Whois) URL stats. I'm trying (although at our hate blog site the selective editing of my e-mails might not demonstrate this) to help you and this other affiliate but cannot get to the point where we have respectful discussion. All I hear is screaming and demands... from the very beginning to today.

Go mow the lawn....

Cause nobody here is buying your lies.

I may have demanded to be taking off the list, but the fact still remains that you never had my permission to sell my information.

Jeff, perhaps it is you that should try and open a dialog with affiliates. Remove those that want to be removed. Quit double talking and trying to make others look like they are in the wrong. You are doing nothing but making yourself look bad.

So I say, go mow the lawn. It needs it. Do something productive with your time for once instead of ripping people off. I'll be happy to start a dialog with you, AFTER you admit that you took private information from the merchants you were working for and then sold that information.

2 complaints?
Only 2 people have complained? I don't believe that. Seeing that you obviously have problems answering your emails, as I am still waiting for a reply from you, maybe you should look through them again.

210 affiliates?
My source is telling me that their list only has 200 listed. They want to know where the other 10 is and when they will receive an update. BTW....You DID notify those 10 new affiliates that you were selling their information right?

Whois Info
I don't give a rat's behind about the whois info. I know that is public. What is not public is the information you took from the merchants while you were working with them. Where did I get this information? Why from you. See above.

My previous post
Why don't you go back and answer my concerns from there? Why? Because you know you can't. It makes you look bad and like a fool when you answer the truth with your lies. They say honesty is the best policy. Why don't you try that for a change?

True

SEOBook:
Your words are respected and I agree. My continued participation here is coming to an end, bye the way. I feel that this has been productive and long in coming. I'm here, frankly, because I'm not "there." I don't believe my statements are shortsighted. I believe that my statements reflect a business perspective that earns no respect among the "listees" regarding the multi-billion dollar list business.

I don't see *as many* Threadwatchers here. I see a lot of ABWers here and that's to be expected as I refuse to engage in "dialog" within their forum and I'm sensitive to cluttering it up here for Nick (as you can see, he had to edit so this tells you something about why I won't post there).

I don't see *as many* Threadwatchers, in my estimation, because this bores them. They realize that this is just another list in a world of lists. On that note, you're right about how every company has a few happy customers among others who might not feel that way. In the end, the market tells us what is right or wrong and we profit or suffer accordingly. If Ditty is right, we will suffer horrifically. To be honest I don't know why people devote all this time to screaming and hollering all over the Web about something that they believe is such a failure. Shawn Collins blogged about the "useful idiots" and he was right. Through their circuses, they are busy creating a market that we never expected to see.

HAHAHA

So you are now running away because someone called you out and you can't answer their concerns. There is a true and honest businessman for you.

I'm taking my ball and going home.

Jeff, why don't you give me a call?

Why don't you give me a call and we can discuss this like men?

You know the number. You sold it to anyone that had the money to buy it.

Ditty:I will not engage you

Ditty:
I will not engage you in your yelling match, admit to things that I did not do, defend myself against what you do not believe to be true or endure your "you didn't answer my concerns" nonsence (for that matter, nor will anyone else who can scroll and read).

P.S.
Your source puts themselves in harms way needlessly. Their choice. Not to mention their "ethics" in breaking a contract. Allow me to cut you off at the pass and suggest that "contracts with crooks are null and void anyway!"

It has been a pleasure to meet a handful of you and I appreciate your words and perspectives although we may not agree. I will take them into consideration moving forward. Long live Threadwatch :)

No, Chris, I don't play like

No, Chris, I don't play like you do. That's why I'm going home. If you had true concern about any of this you'd have called a long time ago and not bothered to show up here along with the ABW smear squad.

Respectfully,
Jeff

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Yelling? So you are refusing to talk like true business men and answer valid concerns. I added emphasis so you would know my passionate points and to make sure you saw something. If I were screaming, it would BE LIKE THIS.

Again, I am taking my ball and going home. WAAAAAAAAAA

Jeff You Do Need to Take a Weekend Break

Your source puts themselves in harms way needlessly. Their choice. Not to mention their "ethics" in breaking a contract.

I admit it...I told Ditty there is only 200 people on the List. So whatever 'contract' I broke by saying what many others have said (ie Top 200...) and what you yourself say on your own site about the product, well go ahead and bring on whatever along the lines of 'harms way' at your disposal. Will it just be me or everyone that has said there are 200 folks on the List? I honestly didn't know that saying there is 200 on the List broke the contract.

Dude you are seriously going off the deep end here. Not being sarcastic here at all, but you probably do need a break away from all of this because comments like those just might be preceived as a threat by some.

No, Kellie: Divulging

No, Kellie:
Divulging contents of the list is a violation (which Ditty has... from you as well?). Thanks for allowing me to clarify, for your concern for my well being... and yes we take breaking contracts seriously. I quite enjoy your churlish "bring it on" antics. Maybe Nick will let them stand for the world to savor.

Read what was said Jeff. I

Read what was said Jeff. I said 200 on the List. You stated it could cause harms way to come to someone.

I divulged?

Get real Jeff. Show me where I divulged any information from a list that I don't have access to. You're grasping at straws. Kellie never gave me anything. I already had that information from another one of your customers a long time before she even bought it.

BTW...I'm still waiting for a phone call OR a repsonse to my concerns. I'm not playing any games. I just want legitimate answers to my concerns. Something that EVERY affiliate on your list has a right to.

Earn it

Chris:
My time and respect is earned. You did everything possible to demonstrate disrespect from your initial email to me and during the time I've spent here. I tried to give you a second chance and you just picked up the megaphone rather than the phone (as you suggest); nor did you engage me in a sensible discussion here. It was more demands and asking for me to do things that I cannot do (like lie... all while you called me a liar, of course).

I don't care who your source is - Kellie or someone else. They've divulged contents to you, a non-customer. Otherwise (since I must spell it out) you would not be screaming about your confidential information in it. Birds of a feather.

Respect? Like I really want your respect......

I am glad that you do not respect me. I only want the respect from honorable business people and my piers. You sir, are neither. All I wanted from day one was to be removed from your precious little list. You refused. Instead, you continue to knowingly sell false information to your customers.

I tried repeatedly to discuss this with you in a sensible discussion. Instead of answering my concerns and removing me from the list, you take your ball home, crying foul all the way. I have screamed for nothing.

As for asking you to do things you can't do? You can't verify your OWN post above? http://www.threadwatch.org/node/2900#comment-18440

Please Jeff. Get with it. You have refused to answer a single concern of mine. Instead, you make accusations and when I ask you to prove it, you ignore it and say something else.

And, so if one of your customers tell me that they saw me on your list, they are breaking the TOS and they are a crook? I'm glad you said that for all to see. For your information, I have already sent a link to this page to one of the merchants that contacted me from your list. And I will continue to do so for EVERY SINGLE ONE that contacts me in the future. That way they can see what type of business man you truly are.

Again, all I wanted fromt he start was to be removed from the list. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

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