ihelpyou forum fallout continues

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Thread Title:
ihelpyou <cough>forum</cough> fallout continues
Thread Description:

Rumours reach me of a exodus of moderators after the heated clash between Doug and Danny Sullivan [DS won via a technical KO 33 seconds into the 2nd round]. Word on the street is that some feel their association with said forum is "damaging" their standing within the commuinity. Pageoneresults rumoured to be amongst the leavers, makemetop to folow once he remembers he is still listed as a mod.

Comments

Yep

I got to see the fight, and managed to save a copy of danny's response. Here's a couple of choice snippets:

Doug

Quote:
Besides, Danny Sullivan just told me that if I posted this "in public" in here, he would ban me for good at the SEW forums. Go for it Danny! Be my guest.

That place is a sham and a shame. They only want people who can agree with spammers and "get along" with spammers. Not a community that's good for "our" industry in any way, shape, or form.

It's a sad story when we see our industry being run and used by a bunch of people who condone and "teach" and "celebrate" spammers. I am actually ashamed to be a part of this industry.

Jupiter will go down one day. I'll be laughing my arse off when they do.

He rants and raves for quite a bit longer but it's just much of the same...

Danny

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quote:
I'm done with them.

You were apparently done with us nearly 300 posts ago. As a reminder, this is what you said when you swooped into our community with your very first post:

quote:
This is my last post in this place.

That was a grand entrance into a community you'd never been part of before. Sort of like kicking a door down, saying I'm here, you all suck, and I'm never coming back. But you did keep coming back, and you were welcomed to as long as you could follow basic rules of behavior. But as explained in my email to you on being premoderated, you didn't.

I wouldn't normally discuss this at all, but since you want to make it a public matter on your own board, I'll spend a few minutes telling my side. Then you can ban me or delete me or just leave the post up as you decide.

Let's share the post that finally made me decide that -- after you'd been warned previously not to flame or be rude to other community members -- that you needed to be premoderated.

quote:

Massa; Shut up.

No one listens to you. You flame me. I flame you. We are even.

Very nice, if we were on a kindergarten playground. You hit me; I hit you. It's not a playground. We want people to respect each other -- and as you had been previously told, if you feel others are flaming you, ask a moderator to help. Don't get into a fight.

You feel upset that the post still counted even though you yourself deleted it? Perhaps you might have followed up with me or Elisabeth on that issue privately. You didn't do that at all, which makes me think the intent was never really about being able to actually participate in our community.

Instead, you decided you had to go and do a post about how we've terribly wronged you. As promised, that's now resulted in you being banned on our forum. You run a forum, Doug. It's not easy -- well, for you it is perhaps, if you ban people right and left. We don't. I think we have three or four people banned and one or two on premoderation. By and large, we work to help everyone get along. Someone recently called our board the "Geneva" of search marketing forums, and I loved that. I think the industry could use a Geneva or two.

If you make a decision that you ultimately think is in the best interest of your forum, I think you'd want someone in your community to either respect that or leave. That's what I told you in my email to you:

quote:
As said, you are on premoderated status. You can post, if those posts are approved. You can live with that decision, and it may be lifted in the future, if Elisabeth feels it is warranted.

If you dislike the decision and feel you need to squawk in whatever "big way" you seem to have in mind, that's your choice. But if you do so, you won't be welcome to post here anymore. We'll simply move you to banned status. The decision was made for a good reason. You can live with it or leave. Being threating isn't going to change that. Better behavior will.

Apparently, better behavior -- after a long history of being warned -- wasn't an option for you. So, you aren't an option for us.

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Spammers are put above everyone else. I guess it's because of the "money" they give to Jupiter Media? Money drives greed. Those of us who would never give Jupiter one dime are out of the picture.

Spammers are not put about all else on our forum. Your characterization of our forums in that way is insulting and perhaps even slanderous. The fact that you personally do not want people to discuss things does not mean that others shouldn't be allowed to do so, nor that there should be usefulness in that, nor that doing so is telling the world to spam, nor that money is being spent to somehow shield "spammers" from talking to the greater world.

We've had this discussion before, of course. People can find us doing the back-and-forth here or on our own forum. So I'm not going to get into it again. You have your position; you're locked to it, and that's that, I guess.

quote:
So go ahead and threaten me with a ban Danny. See if I truly care what you do. lol Watch me "shake in my shoes."

As for being threatening, I think you need to spin that mirror around. When you got in touch, let's remember what you said:

quote:

I want to know exactly why I cannot post anymore? or being "moderated" or something?

If this is indeed the case, you all will hear and see this "in public" in a big way.

Was I supposed to scurry back and worry that because you might be upset, I shouldn't premoderate you but instead have you continue to perhaps flame people in a way you'd been warned not to before? Were you expecting that you should get some type of "Flame & Get Out Of Jail Free" card? I'm not going to do that for anyone that I think is harmful to the community, sorry.

Can't we all just get along?

I can understand why those mods chose to leave.

Ultimately, this is a case of 'You are wrong because you do business differently than I do'.

It is not proper to call someone a name because of their skin color, gender or socio-economic status, and in my mind, this is no different than referring to someone by a label because of the way they do business.

In other words: Referring to *anyone* as a spammer, black hat, white hat, or any other label is damaging to those in SEM because it divides the industry as a whole.

Hell, calling someone by a name...any name is just in bad taste.

Complex

Whearas i dont entirely disagree with you grnidone, i really dont think this particular spat is that complex.

Doug is a looney, danny finally banned him.

Seems like Doug is going off

Seems like Doug is going off because he considers anyone who does business differently than he does as a 'spammers'. Then, he gets all worked up and starts calling names and being rude.

Or perhaps I read too much into it..no?

But, if you'd like, I will keep my soapbox sermans to myself. I tend to say things over and over..*LOL* I remember one particular forum owner -- not Nick -- told me to my face "Nobody listens to what you have to say anyway."

He doesn't have many friends anymore.

It's really not the association anyone cares about

Quote:
Word on the street is that some feel their association with said forum is "damaging" their standing within the commuinity.

"The street" has said that for years, even back when I was an admin at IHY. Bottom line is that most who associate there don't care what the street says, nor should they.

More concerning, to me at least, is the damage Doug does in general to the good name of professional SEOs everywhere. Unfortunately, with him as one of the most outspoken whitehatters, it makes it difficult for the rest of us to get the real message out. Just as the worst of the blackhatters make it difficult for those who simply push the envelope.

Giving blackhats and whitehats a bad name.

Not that I totally agree with the whole blackhat/whitehat metaphor, but giving a bad name to both ends of whatever "spectrum" you want to call it, your point is a good one Jill.

Who'da thunk we'd have extremists and radicals in the SEO/SEM industry;)

It's OVER

>Doug is a looney, danny finally banned him.

end of discussion

You sure about your source?

Quote:
Pageoneresults rumoured to be amongst the leavers, makemetop to folow once he remembers he is still listed as a mod.

Both Pageoneresults and Makemetop appear to still be mods there according to the homepage.

2 sizes to small???

I think the people just get Doug mixed up he just views things differently.

Dougs definitions
White hat seo - One who blabs, spouts, points fingers and shuns while informing local business owners of their own sainthood even though said owners don't give a damn and just want to freaking rank for their terms like any business owner would.

Gray hat - Sorry, No shades found here.

Black hat seo - Any forum memeber besides those at "I'll help you" (grammar fixed so I don't sound stupid). Someone who spams the holy index of the SE's even though they're machines and have souls and therefore in 100 years and 3 miracles later they will have a chance at beatification.

Mainstream definitions
White hat seo - Follow the SE's rules and you're good to go.

Gray hat - Most of the seo community. Anyone building a site, vertical directories, blogs, forums and/or any other community/niche to farm page rank, link pop and authority content that they can then pass on to clients. Spammers that use throw away domains at THEIR own expense and not that of others.

Black hat seo - An unethical group or person that burns a clients site through the owners own ignorance to SE regulations then runs off with the money and does it again and again.

You sure about your source?

I only deal with immpecable when it comes to sources.

>according to the homepage.

You know the drill.

On the other hand if pageone and mmt were to post a correction I'd be more than happy to give my source a black mark.

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